167 replies to this topic

[platypus]

towbartone, on 21 August 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Nicky mate join the blood thirsty realists.

Nice dig. I thought your post, specifically, came across as particularly blood thirsty Tow and there seems to be quite a bit of macho posturing when some people have been going on about how much tougher on the imaginary guilty man they would be than the last man. Interesting stuff.

Everyone seemed to conveniently miss the list of countries who actually implemented the death penalty last year, which I posted earlier in the thread. Would you swap our crime rate and society in general for any of theirs? Not I.

[rustynutz]

Well i started this topic , and it seems to have had many differing outlooks both sides of the fence in which both have good , and bad points .

Now
1) I still cannot see a problem when 100% guilt is known without a shadow of a doubt of an "eye for an eye " law. Regardless of which countries  do , or do not have the death penalty that is irrelitive to this country .

2) I would like to see far harder prison environments the American system seems to be a great idea to me . Work a 10-12 hour day  7 days a week , and give something back to the society you wronged.

3) Nice to see a genuine debate without any bullshit , petty arguments .

[rustynutz]

To re-ignite this topic , and with the latest revelations concerning Jimmy Savile would any disagree that IF he was still alive that the death penalty if still on the statute books should have been given ? . Now apparently there are a few more "celebraties " involved within this , Freddy Star for one has been named If , or when any are found guilty surly IF we had the death penalty it would be enforced .

I have watched the TV , and listened to the wooley , cardigan wearing, do gooders who make excuses for everything under the sun committed by the lowest perverts in our society . How it was there upbringing, there childhood, the fact that they didn't have access to a action man as a child , or there bicycle had a puncture at age 10 was the reason they turned to abbusing children . Well i'm sorry that is all bullshite .

THEY ARE SICK MOTHER-F**KRS. Something ain't wired up right , and no amount of phyco mumbo jumbo will help ever regardless of who , what . where , or when will ever help . There is one way to solve the problem , and one only .STOP the gene pool in it's tracks at the first offence , by the death sentence being enforced .

[Spud]

As for the Jimmy Saville saga, rumour has it Jeremy Beadle may have had a small hand in it too

[A'Villan]

Although it's understandable why one wouldn't want to use energy on the rehabilitation, or even consideration of people who commit vile acts. If the 'cardigans' can create a better environment good on them.

I'm not aware of the Jimmy Savile case but on another topic, should some of the police involved in the Hillsborough case be given the death penalty?

[Kane]

towbartone, on 12 August 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

As someone who has been on the front line so to speak I can name at least a dozen people who i would happily have rid the world of.

In yesterdays time maybe it was a bit risky to top a lot of people as history has proven them innocent.

However in todays high tech age it can be proven without any doubt that the person did commit the crime, in fact the criminal protection society (CPS) as they known in the force will not take a case to court unless you have over proven it.

Life should always have meant life and did until the youghurt knitters got their way, and that is the crux of the matter, the liberalists get what they want and always have a further agenda lined up, once they got rid of the death penalty they went for the life sentence being cut, 20 years, 20 years is not life, if you are 18 you will be out before you are 38 thats not life.

would I bring it back, I would volunteer to put the noose on and pull the leaver.

Anyone who says that we should not go back and its barbaric should spend five minutes in the company of those who have lost someone in this way, it not only takes one life but invariably ruins several more in the process.

It costs on average 80 thousand pounds to keep one of these scumbags in prison, and incidentally with more privileges than any of us get in a lifetime.

It costs about 2000 pounds to rid us of the scum forever, its a no brainer.

get rid of them and the more painful and drawn out the better.

If you disagree with me have a look at your kids, nieces, nephews, grandkids, or even your neighbours or friends kids and tell me what you would do if it was one of them.

Incidentally child murders were lower when we had the death penalty.

so, yes bring it back, bring it back now and give me a call i will happily oblige.

You have to look at the bigger picture in this instance - I'm not saying we shouldn't have the death penalty. I think ultimately - I'd be up for it.

But who governs it? There is ALWAYS corruption and the higher you go, the stronger and more prevalent it is. I wouldn't trust the current powers to govern this in a correct manner.

Also, what would it do to those who administer the deaths - Killing person on person, no matter what the've done, has to affect a person in some sort of way. There must be a feeling of regret and remorse or other darker emotions and thoughts. Someone who can end the life of another as a 9-5 and then go home to his wife and kids playing happy families is an unsettling and, to my mind, improbable thought. Something must click or snap or not be (or is as the case may be) there.

Finally, what will it do to us as a society? Will we become less forgiving? Less tolerant? Will we become sheep on a witch hunt? We have to be better than the criminals, there has to be clear daylight between us - Other wise we become a world of criminals cherry picking the rules as it suits.

All easy to say when atm - I agree. My point is, I'm not for, I'm not against. I just don't think it's as clear cut as people think.

I definitely don't agree the death should be painful and prolonged or an eye for an eye. That would make us just as bad as them - Death is more than enough when you actually stop and consider it's totality - And if there is more (I.e Heaven and hell) well then the torture is there without us becoming monsters destined for the same in the process.

Personally, I say we cut a deal with the Russians - Brand criminals with cow-prod style tags based on the severity of their crimes, send them all to a baron land of Russia - No help, no training, no aid. Randomly drop them from a plane wearing basic clothes and nothing else. If they make their way to civilization, pretty unlikely, then well done, we can try to reform them and reintegrate them into society (thought they'll never be fully a part of it due to their branding), they offend again in any way that causes pain of distress to another human being - We ship them right back to Russia for a second term.

I've just thought of that so I'm sure there are many things to consider.

[cgale_825]

A lot of the problem is that the lunatics are in charge of the assylums ,  If the cardigans were locked up for 24 hours with some of the worse sociopaths things would rapidly  change . But it want untill the upper midle class twerps who are the cardigans would never let go of the idea that , isolated in their middle class enclaves , they are actually doing something to aid the down trodden lower classes   , when in fact they are making things worse , especially as they are only too happy to endorse the conditons that allow the gap betwen rich & poor grow ever wider !

[A'Villan]

^I'm not sure I understand what you mean but, when you say cardigans endorse class segregation do you mean the income that psychologists and psychiatrists take home?

In any case, I think the mere fact that they put forward an opinion or school of thought on criminals, that we should consider them with something other than outright prejudice to be a step forward. And, would only aid in more people noticing there is a problem with class gaps, amongst other things.

[cgale_825]

A, on 15 October 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

^I'm not sure I understand what you mean but, when you say cardigans endorse class segregation do you mean the income that psychologists and psychiatrists take home?

In any case, I think the mere fact that they put forward an opinion or school of thought on criminals, that we should consider them with something other than outright prejudice to be a step forward. And, would only aid in more people noticing there is a problem with class gaps, amongst other things.

Nothing to do with the incomes of those you name but , everything to do with the class distinctions that the they perpetuate . They talk of improovement for the lower classes , but are the 1st to complain about anything that might affect their own tiny worlds and that of their neighbours in their elitist enclaves of mediochrity , whilest praising the "upper classes" and talking as if the poor belong in a different world to their own !

[Aston Thrilla]

The only problem I have with the debate on the death penalty (in society, not here) is, on the whole, none of the hand wringers who's job it is to protect our young, old and disperate have actually had any first hand experience of ANY crime EVER, except the crimes they commit themselves (for financial gain). Personally I think we should hang parliament, literally, and get back to having a country run by its own people, chosen by its own people first and foremost.

The fact Governments, red and blue, continiously try to push through the votes for prisoners lobby speaks volumes, it's all about votes and to hell with the rest of us. The death penalty will not return because the scumbags, tax dodgers and miscreants FAR outweigh the common man.

This country is f**ked, has been for 20 years, can the last civilized person leaving please turn out the lights!?

[Kane]

We could do a whole V for Vendetta thing - But to be honest, there would just be chaos that immediately followed until one person steps up to the plate and we end up with either a dictatorship or the same type of people in charge again.

This is human nature, this is the way it will always be. Some people are leaders, the majority are sheep.

[cgale_825]

real leaders make decisions , but Cardigans sit on fences claiming to know everything ,  understand very little ,but get in the way of true justice with false claims of  being able to help !

[Kane]

Yet the 'Cardigans' are running the world.

And they would again eventually if not immediately.

[cgale_825]

TheDoctor, on 16 October 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Yet the 'Cardigans' are running the world.

And they would again eventually if not immediately.

No they only think they are running things , the problem is that ordinary mortals frequently have difficulty contacting those who really matter

[Aston Thrilla]

This is what I want to say to the "Cardigans".

[platypus]

Who the f*ck is "they"? What "class distinctions" do they perpetrate? Where did you find the stats on "them" not being victims of crime?

Some people seem to be bending reality into some pretty funny shapes to fit their arguments here. A link, a quote, a study, an anything to back up the last few points would be really welcome. Or is it just Rantday?

[cgale_825]

platypus, on 19 October 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Who the f*ck is "they"? What "class distinctions" do they perpetrate? Where did you find the stats on "them" not being victims of crime?

Some people seem to be bending reality into some pretty funny shapes to fit their arguments here. A link, a quote, a study, an anything to back up the last few points would be really welcome. Or is it just Rantday?

who are the cardigans ? they are the upper middle class twerps who constantly talk of the sociological & psychological needs of the masses , but are incapable of being descisive and @ the remotest mention of anything that might slightly impinge on their tiny parts of the world turn in into protesting NIMBY`s @ the speed of lightening

And they constantly try to obstruct the real descision  makers from finding out what real people want & need to make society a better place for all, in a vain effort to maintain or improove their  own  their social standing  !

[platypus]

You've responded with more sweeping generalisations without answering the question. I want actual people, actual quotes, actual facts. Otherwise you may start to sound like a slightly paranoid conspiracist.

[cgale_825]

platypus, on 19 October 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

You've responded with more sweeping generalisations without answering the question. I want actual people, actual quotes, actual facts. Otherwise you may start to sound like a slightly paranoid conspiracist.

your starting to sound like a cardigan     they are always looking for more facts as they never can have enough to make a descision ! And I`m sure Tow will back me up on that as I think he also can remember a world which was far better without social services and all the hangers on

[platypus]

You and Tow having fond nostalgia doesn't counter ALL the stats showing society is getting safer. At this point I'll leave you to reminisce.